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TIME edits Occupy Wall Street Support from Person of the Year Cover

Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:37 AM EST
us-news, propaganda, occupy-wall-street, activism, wikileaks, ows, corporate-government, corporate-media, bradley-manning, banksters, corporate-fascism, war-profiteers, bonesmen, time-person-of-the-year, 99-protesters, misinformed-public, farce-politics, orwellian-msm
By Pamela Drew

TIME Person of The Year images as taken and as revised to erase 99% support ~ http://twitpic.com/7urose Thanks to @spirals_layers Rachael Christine

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Old habits die hard and MSM has been selectively editing material for generations so it is no surprise that a photo as visible as their person of the year cover was editorialized to change the facts we see with our own eyes into something vaguer that might be foreign to American actions. 

TIME was founded by Henry Luce in the era of epic growth in power for the Skull & Bones fraternity as fellow Yale Members hit their stride in a covert alliance flexing World Class power. My focus piece from 2007,  Bush's Blue Blooded Nazi History goes into specific detail. 

Bonesmen David Rockefeller and Prescott Bush moved Remmington Arms weapons through the War Department as fellow Bonesmen at Brown Brothers Harriman formed the OSS now CIA and formed the base of Wall Street's growing corporate Fascist power inside America. 

While this band of brothers shaped world events and amassed fortunes the TIME ~ LIFE magazine empire delivered views of the World and the Nation that suited their aims.

Nye Committee Investigation into War Profiteering ended with attack on critics and fortunes still flowing to Banksters to launch more wars.

For three generations the powers of Wall Street's elite have covertly shaped world events and overtly produced propaganda to shape public opinion in support of a regime that pursues profit at all cost. 

Lost in all the "official and expert" opinions filling the "news" of threats that make preemptive war justifiable, are the names of the individual Chicken Hawk profiteers calling for blood and laughing all the way to the bank.

This cover is classic because a picture is worth more than 1,000 words; pictures are recognized as 100% truth seen with our own eyes. 

The truth here is 99% making an historic stand were intentionally erased for the 1% benefiting from an uninformed public.

 

Original TwitPic flagging photoshopped TIME cover http://twitpic.com/7urose

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  • Groups: Brave New World, Corporate Watchdogs, Corporatism, Happy with Corporate America?, Mad As Hell!! Aren't You??, Occupy Everywhere, Occupy Wall Street, OWS Consolidarity, Question Authority, RightsVine, US News and Views , Why TV News Is Horrible, World News and Views
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  • Public Discussion (67)
Pamela Drew

It's a small transgression in a media empire that habitually lies through its teeth to get public support for destructive corporate interests to pursue profits at any cost, but each small lie helps sustain the web choking Democracy!

If we are looking for truth we meed to turn off MSM and instantly see War as the criminal act it is. Two small examples of how censorship and misinformation change public support for War Profiteering ~

~ Brave Soldier speaks out about War Crimes in Iraq video thanks to Anonymiss Express &

~ 2003 study showing misperceptions are the foundation for supporting Iraq War

Together they show MSM support for lying & dying for profits, but countless examples still fill headlines

  • 5 votes
#1 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:54 AM EST
douglasq

The "Person of the Year" is misunderstood by a lot of people. They do not understand that it is not an award. Time once declared Adolf Hitler "Man of the Year." Why? Because they choose based on who has most influenced the news during that year.

Since OWS is not the only protest going on in the world, the image needed to stand for the protestors in London, Greece, Italy, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya AND in the U.S.

  • 12 votes
#1.1 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:20 AM EST
Pamela Drew

I understand that the intent is to reflect a global movement, but there has got to be one picture in the TIME Archives that can convey the point they intended without selectively editing!

  • 3 votes
#1.2 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:23 AM EST
tt16

Why edit anything? Just leave it like it is.

  • 1 vote
#1.3 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:50 AM EST
thisbusymonster

Why edit anything?

Time didn't want to actually convey the message the 99%-ers are sending. They wanted to be unbiased, so they removed anything that didn't fit that narrative.

Of course, if they'd airbrushed the stars and strips off of a Teabagger's flag, the right would raise holy yell.

  • 7 votes
#1.4 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:29 PM EST
douglasq

but there has got to be one picture in the TIME Archives that can convey the point they intended without selectively editing!

But if you look at the image, they are not selectively editing. They are using the image as the starting point for a whole other illustration.

  • 3 votes
#1.5 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:38 PM EST
thisbusymonster

But if you look at the image, they are not selectively editing

Yes, they are.

  • 2 votes
#1.6 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:47 PM EST
douglasq

How are they "selectively" editing when they've edited the whole thing?

Yes, the 99% is gone but so is the background, the original contrast, the original coloring, the actual protestors shoulders (they are different in the illustration), the neckline of the original protestors shirt (again, different in the illustration).

This is an illustration. Not a photo. It used a photo as its starting point. Not unlike the "Hope" poster by Shephard Fairey.

  • 4 votes
#1.7 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:51 PM EST
I'm God

The MSM lie. That's what they're paid to do. They lie, you buy their lie, everybody's happy.

What do you expect for a couple bucks anyway - truth? Truth costs Trillions!

  • 4 votes
#1.8 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:46 PM EST
douglasq

The MSM lie. That's what they're paid to do. They lie, you buy their lie, everybody's happy.

What do you expect for a couple bucks anyway - truth? Truth costs Trillions!

[facepalm]

  • 7 votes
#1.9 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:51 PM EST
peapod

I could not agree with you more douglasq. I'm pretty conservative, but this is rediculous. They wanted to take an OWS protester and make him/her a generic protester to embody all protesters. It's a cool picture. Obviously there are some stark contrasts between what the OWS and global protesters are experiencing, but so what? All they did was take 99% off and change the color scheme. I ask again, so what?

  • 4 votes
#1.10 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:04 PM EST
JAVE

The author seems to miss the point of an award given to the general protester instead of a pecific cause. The guy with the 99% message means little in Egypt, Syria, Russia or the other places with protesters.

Wake up, the USA isn't the center of the world. As protests go and the people that particiated in them the USA were rather tame. Pepper spray and desk appearance tickets vs getting shot to death, beat, imprisoned and tortured? OWS did not produce iconic image kind of stuff.

I think "Year of the Protester" is something a bit greater then our protests. The other place's protests made real world change. Time made the right call having a generic protester on the cover. This was the world, not just the USA.

  • 3 votes
#1.11 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:06 PM EST
douglasq

The other thing to remember is that the image was used on both their domestic AND international editions. I know we as Americans like to THINK of ourselves as the center of the known universe but to those protesting in other countries, we might not be on their radar so much as we would like.

  • 4 votes
#1.12 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:09 PM EST
Pamela Drew

If TIME wanted a generic protester they should have chosen one or if they couldn't find what they need pay an artist to create an original image, the photoshop version is editorial imposed on reality & not as powerful graphically. No matter what spin you put on it the changed the photo to say what they wanted not what the person in the photo was protesting.

That's the idea of photo-journalism, to tell with pictures & if your pictures don't work bad break!

  • 3 votes
#1.13 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:35 PM EST
douglasq

No matter what spin you put on it the changed the photo to say what they wanted not what the person in the photo was protesting.

I'm not putting "spin" on it. Having worn the hat of art director, illustrator and editor at various times in the past, I just know the process cover art like that goes through before it reaches the public.

  • 3 votes
#1.14 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:16 PM EST
Pamela Drew

douglasq...I'm not putting "spin" on it. Having worn the hat of art director, illustrator and editor at various times in the past, I just know the process cover art like that goes through before it reaches the public.

So what, its a NEWS magazine and the dominant feature of the protester was the 99% on her scarf which was erased by TIME. All the artistic argument will not alter the fact that it was a material, editorial change!

  • 2 votes
#1.15 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:54 PM EST
peapod

Where do you find a generic protester? What does one look like? Which protest had generic protesters if not OWS? This is an utterly rediculous sentiment.

MANUFACTURED OUTRAGE!!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

  • 1 vote
#1.16 - Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:22 AM EST
douglasq

Ok, a good example (and one that generated outrage) was the cover of O.J. Simpson by Matt Mahurin.

People said that the overly dark image made Simpsons skin darker than it was naturally and was racist in nature. But here's the thing. They were judging that image without looking at the bazillion other really dark images produced by that illustrator. Mahurin produced a LOT of work that was used by magazines like TIME at that time.

And yes, I said illustrator. Mahurin did not take that photo. It was a police booking photo. Mahurin takes photographic source material and alters it. He has a very recognizable style.

So was the photo racist? Or was it just an example of a particular illustrator's style?

  • 3 votes
#1.17 - Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:32 AM EST
Pamela Drew

I'd like to start by saying thank you douglasq, for your effort to have a reasonable discussion of our opposing opinions on the topic. While we may never see eye to eye the respectful exchange and effort to convey your perspective is notable and greatly appreciated. I'd rather disagree with someone willing to make an articulate argument than have the support of someone who is intolerant of opposing views.

douglasq...People said that the overly dark image made Simpsons skin darker than it was naturally and was racist in nature. But here's the thing. They were judging that image without looking at the bazillion other really dark images produced by that illustrator. Mahurin produced a LOT of work that was used by magazines like TIME at that time.

Great example to cite and reasonable question, but in looking at the other dark images that TIME used from Matt Mahurin we see the common theme is to convey something dark and evil which brings us back to the editorial choice of what message the TIME editors choose to convey.

So was the photo racist? Or was it just an example of a particular illustrator's style?

In the case of the OJ illustration as one of a series it suggests the intent by TIME was to give it nefarious overtones and that is why TIME selected the particular illustrator, not that the illustrator had an ulterior motive in his portrayal.

TIME got exactly what they had hoped for & Matt delivered a portrait that's dark by all measures!

  • 2 votes
#1.18 - Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:00 PM EST
douglasq

I'd like to start by saying thank you douglasq, for your effort to have a reasonable discussion of our opposing opinions on the topic. While we may never see eye to eye the respectful exchange and effort to convey your perspective is notable and greatly appreciated. I'd rather disagree with someone willing to make an articulate argument than have the support of someone who is intolerant of opposing views.

Thanks. I try. :-)

  • 3 votes
#1.19 - Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:48 PM EST
Pamela Drew

:~)

  • 2 votes
#1.20 - Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:52 PM EST
Reply
sambonner

Your convoluted rant notwithstanding, I think Time 'erased' the '99%' from the image because the person on the cover is meant to represent all protest movements around the world and not just Occupy Wall St.

  • 8 votes
Reply#2 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:13 AM EST
douglasq

Thank you. Sanity prevails.

  • 7 votes
#2.1 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:17 AM EST
Pamela Drew

As I've said before, if the intent is to reflect generic protesters then find a picture that works as is!!

  • 2 votes
#2.2 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:24 AM EST
tt16

All movements around the world are Occupy movements, just in different places. People are occupying ground. It's a global movement against Oppressors. In the US it's the 99% being oppressed by the 1%. Similar in other countries except the oppressor may be One person or regime.

  • 1 vote
#2.3 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:59 AM EST
thisbusymonster

think Time 'erased' the '99%' from the image . . .

To change the narrative of the image. And also mislead the people who are reading their articles.

Nice try. But selective editing only has one purpose, and it's not to promote a healthy discussion.

  • 2 votes
#2.4 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:30 PM EST
douglasq

As I've said before, if the intent is to reflect generic protesters then find a picture that works as is!!

Again, if you look at the image, it is no longer a photographic record of an individual protestor but an illustration that represents protesters in general because not all were associated with OWS.

Who knows what was going through the art director's mind? Most likely, they were responding to visual things like symmetry and "where the @!$%# am I going to put my headline with that 99% in the way." The art director may have just been responding to the head on stare of the protestor behind the mask.

Unless you've worked in such a capacity, you can't really second guess the creative decisions that have to be made.

  • 5 votes
#2.5 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:44 PM EST
thisbusymonster

Again, if you look at the image, it is no longer a photographic record of an individual protestor but an illustration that represents protesters in general because not all were associated with OWS.

The point is, Time Magazine has been caught airbrushing images again for the convenience of their narrative.

Who knows what was going through the art director's mind?

Who cares? They don't seem to be able to just show us what's going on without being either too lazy to get the correct picture, or too bought by the system to give us the real story behind the picture. Either way, not a source of news anymore. A source of propaganda and infotainment. Stop trying to polish this turd.

Unless you've worked in such a capacity

Don't give a @!$%# how hard the job is. If they don't like the job of being journalists, stop pretending to be journalists and just be lazy cut-and-pasters.

  • 1 vote
#2.6 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:46 PM EST
douglasq

To change the narrative of the image. And also mislead the people who are reading their articles.

I think a better way to judge of their "narrative" would be to actually read the article and see what their coverage of OWS is like. Because, right now, we are LITERALLY judging a book by its cover.

  • 5 votes
#2.7 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:47 PM EST
thisbusymonster

Because, right now, we are LITERALLY judging a book by its cover.

This isn't a book cover. It is an image purported to be "journalism" but which is actually being retouched to fit a magazine-style narrative. That it was placed on the cover indicates that Time thinks it is the most important part of the narrative.

I'm judging failed journalists by their failure to do their jobs. I'm through giving these folks a pass.

    #2.8 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:48 PM EST
    douglasq

    Do you even understand the concept of "illustration." Do you actually think that the Time or Newsweek cover (I forget which) of Gaddafi's head funneling through an hourglass and turning to sand was a journalistic record?

    Do you think Mitt Romney was actually leaping through the air with a name badge and standard Mormon issue white shirt and black slacks on the recent Newsweek cover? Was that an accurate journalistic record? Or a photo illustration?

    • 6 votes
    #2.9 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:53 PM EST
    douglasq

    http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,20111226,00.html

    that's a link to an enlarged version of the image. If you look, many things have been ADDED to the image as well as taken away. It is no longer a photograph. It is an composite of many photos and is now an illustration. Get it?

    • 6 votes
    #2.10 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:03 PM EST
    sambonner

    This discussion is ridiculous. Douglas , you are a patient man.

    The person of the year according to Time was not the OWS protesters, but the world protesters. They took a preliminary image and modified it to convey the theme of the accompanying article. Case closed. All this ranting is beyond goofy.

    I dislike corporations as much as the next guy, but I can't see any diminishment of OWS here. If anything they were saluting them by using a picture of one of them as the basis for the cover image.

    • 4 votes
    #2.11 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:31 PM EST
    douglasq

    Douglas , you are a patient man.

    Not really. But I must cover it better than I had realized.

    People say they cannot tell when I'm drunk, either. ;-)

    • 3 votes
    #2.12 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:06 PM EST
    Reply
    mountainfirefall

    Media brought attention to Occupy at its most troubled moment.

    we'll get by this if women and the poor/forgotten step up are brought to the center.

    no one has addressed the people left out.. the woman, the 'three jobbers' and the marginalized.

    occupy was not held accountable... let's get busy.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#3 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:28 AM EST
    Pamela Drew

    mountainfirefall...Media brought attention to Occupy at its most troubled moment.

    In my view MSM gets no credit at all, they finally reported Occupy events when NYPD violence against unarmed protesters made it a story MSM could no longer ignore.

    occupy was not held accountable... let's get busy.

    Not sure what you mean by this or what accountability you'd like to see, wanna give me a clue? :~)

    • 2 votes
    #3.1 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:35 AM EST
    Reply
    Mike-1499840

    I find it ironic that the OWS claimed to be a worldwide movement, yet when their allies in the MSM produce a graphic to show this, the OWS bashes them. I and my fellow TEA Partiers (you know, the ones who got permits & cleaned up after themselves) are laughing our collective derierres clean off at this cannibalism. Hahahahahahahah!

    Regards,

    Mike

    • 5 votes
    #4 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:50 AM EST
    Pamela Drew

    Mike...I find it ironic that the OWS claimed to be a worldwide movement, yet when their allies in the MSM produce a graphic to show this, the OWS bashes them

    Where did OWS make such a claim and who among the 99% was named to speak for the movement?

    It sure as heck isn't me! I never speak for anyone but myself, so don't attribute my personal opinion to a movement just as a convenient smear for you to lump together. That's how bad information gets legs!

    I and my fellow TEA Partiers (you know, the ones who got permits & cleaned up after themselves) are laughing our collective derierres clean off at this cannibalism.

    Spelling and grammatical errors aside it is still unclear what that means? What cannibalism? Economically no one eats more healthy elements than the Banksters and following that theme examples are endless.

    What part of public gathering and free speech without deep corporate pockets picking up the tab is troubling to you? You may laugh at whatever you like, but informed individuals see the Koch funded Tea Party sham for exactly what it is, corporate liars spinning myths and spurring conflict to protect profits.

    One small piece of the Astroturf PR war on individual rights under ALEC exposed at PRWatch

    CNN Online has published a story titled an "angry electorate helps sustain tea party," ignoring the clear evidence the "movement" is only sustained by thinly-veiled religious zeal and wealthy funders like the Koch brothers.

    Perhaps in an effort to avoid accusations of liberal bias, CNN Online parrots Tea Party spin, concluding the article by quoting a GOP strategist who states "The tea party is an organic movement that was largely created by people who were frustrated by Washington. ... There's not much you can do about something that's genuine, something that grew organically." On the contrary, the tea party has been funded since its inception by the billionaire Koch brothers and other wealthy ideologues, and its events and gatherings have been orchestrated by corporate lobbyists.

    http://www.prwatch.org/news/2011/09/11016/cnn-sustains-tea-party-myth

    • 6 votes
    #4.1 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:07 PM EST
    Mike-1499840

    Pamela,

    You are kidding right? You didn't see several videos of several different occupiers stating that OWS was a world wide movement? Please!

    Aside from some tongue in cheek aphorisms like "clean off," I'm not sure what you meant regarding grammatical errors.

    As to public gathering and free speech, I fully support it...except when it breaks the law and violates the rights of other folks. If you come and defecate on my property, you will most likely be pretty roughly handled prior to being turned over to law enforcement.

    Please feel free to continue this discussion when you get the facts correct.

    Regards,

    Mike

    • 3 votes
    #4.2 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:24 PM EST
    mountainfirefall

    Mike you've been dogging this 'point' for a long time now... bring the links and use a source that isn't part of your 'homies' agenda.

    • 1 vote
    #4.3 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:28 PM EST
    Mike-1499840

    mountain,

    See second post

    http://opinion.inquirer.net/tag/occupy-wall-street-movement

    From their own web site:

    http://occupywallst.org/

    First sentence of the article:

    http://occupywallst.org/

    That was just five minutes.

    • 3 votes
    #4.4 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:40 PM EST
    Pamela Drew

    Mike...You are kidding right? You didn't see several videos of several different occupiers stating that OWS was a world wide movement? Please!

    Wow, some shout outs from the throngs of protesters that we should all place high value on, Why?

    Every group has every kind of view expressed and it would be just as unfair to say every person in the right to life movement believes in killing doctors simply because some in the group express the view.

    I live in NYC and know you can find anyone to say something you want to hear if you're willing to ask enough who pass by.

    Soundbites from random individuals do not constitute a political platform for a phenomena of public outrage.

    If you come and defecate on my property, you will most likely be pretty roughly handled prior to being turned over to law enforcement.

    Again with the single unknown person covering all in an act that is typical of what happens daily in NYC anyway! Homeless and others of questionable judgment or capacity find relief in a city that is largely without the basic necessity of public bathrooms so sh*t always happens!

    Please feel free to continue this discussion when you get the facts correct.

    Bite me you corporate troll, signing off with the hallmark hubris so dismissive as to set terms for another persons action. Game on. bring your facts to debunk the Koch funding of the Tea Party Express, bring your A game and let's go on the facts and verifiable evidence, not crowd-sourced opinion.

    • 2 votes
    #4.5 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:50 PM EST
    thisbusymonster

    I find it ironic that the OWS claimed to be a worldwide movement, yet when their allies in the MSM produce a graphic to show this, the OWS bashes them

    It's not a graphic. It's a photograph that has been adulterated for the purposes of blurring the story. If a Teabagger rally had been airbrushed like this to remove the American flags or some other important element of the Teabaggers' um, message (I don't grant that they have one, but that's another discussion) then the entire media-o-sphere would be in an uproar about photo doctoring.

    But you neatly sidestep this problem by re-defining a photo as a "graphic."

    American news outlets have a long-established tradition of WTF covers on their American editions. It seems like serious news gets deleted out of most of our news paper covers and magazine covers, and we get navel-gazing America-centric crap that clouds the discussion we should be having with the rest of the world. It's no wonder foreigners view America as sharply disconnected from reality. Our media goes out of their way to treat us differently, as if we are children too stupid to understand.

    • 3 votes
    #4.6 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:51 PM EST
    douglasq

    It's not a graphic. It's a photograph that has been adulterated for the purposes of blurring the story.

    Dude, it has been "adulterated" for the purpose of placing a headline and making it stand out on a crowded newstand.

    But you neatly sidestep this problem by re-defining a photo as a "graphic."

    In a design setting, EVERY photo is a graphic. Even more so when it has been recreated by an ILLUSTRATOR!

    • 3 votes
    #4.7 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:57 PM EST
    mountainfirefall

    Soundbites from random individuals do not constitute a political platform for a phenomena of public outrage.

    absolutely... positively.

    occupy makes room for everyone... when it works and those who make it work remain true. there is no way that 'the protester' any one protester... can take this unless we let that one 'leader' take it.

    its why i am a warrior in the movement and not an occupier... we can grow forward now, as we have others ready to accept all voices.. it still hasn't happened but we must have that as a point on the horizon. Time does no one a favor by their action, except themselves.. we haven't gone away, so they've boarded the 'train' for a short 'ride' that gets THEM somewhere.

    pffffst.. get corporate anything out of our house.

    • 2 votes
    #4.8 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:10 PM EST
    Pamela Drew

    douglasq...Dude, it has been "adulterated" for the purpose of placing a headline and making it stand out on a crowded newstand.

    Great argument if the original photo didn't have infinitely bolder graphic impact and far more curbside eye appeal. Easy enough for all the text to shift down to the shoulder area and take virtually illegible words across the scarf and make a contrast stripe so it IS readable at a news stand glance!

    • 2 votes
    #4.9 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:11 PM EST
    douglasq

    Great argument if the original photo didn't have infinitely bolder graphic impact and far more curbside eye appeal if the whole text were shifted down to the shoulder area, not to mention the virtually illegible text across the scarf could easily fit as a contrast stripe below it so the list IS readable at a news stand glance!

    So now you're an art director? Again, they made graphic and aesthetic decisions. And they are subjective, as is all art and design. But you don't work at Time. So someone else with a different, subjective point of view on what makes a good cover graphic made those decisions.

    For the umpteenth time, look closely at the image and you will see that A LOT more has been done to it than the removal of the 99% from the scarf. There is imagery layered onto every part of it, maps of the middle east, etc.

    • 2 votes
    #4.10 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:23 PM EST
    Mike-1499840

    Our media goes out of their way to treat us differently, as if we are children too stupid to understand.

    Normally, I find little to agree with regarding media opinion...but in this case and based on several posts in this thread, I will make an exception.

    Regards,

    Mike

    • 2 votes
    #4.11 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:15 PM EST
    Mike-1499840

    signing off with the hallmark hubris

    "Hubris," much like "arrogance," is a liberal code word used to identify their betters as far as intelligence, accomplishments and overall worth to society.

    Regards,

    Mike

    • 2 votes
    #4.12 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:35 PM EST
    Pamela Drew

    douglasq...So now you're an art director? Again, they made graphic and aesthetic decisions. And they are subjective, as is all art and design.

    When you say the image was changed for graphic reasons it's correct and when someone counters with reasons it is not improved that its a problem, nice double standard. Your opinion alone is factual, haha!

    • 2 votes
    #4.13 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:42 PM EST
    douglasq

    No, I'm saying that someone else made decisions to alter the image aesthetically. I could have been altered a million different ways. They chose the way that worked best for what they were trying to do graphically AND from a marketing standpoint. It doesn't matter WHAT you say if readers ignore your magazine on the stands.

    • 2 votes
    #4.14 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:19 PM EST
    Pamela Drew

    douglasq...No, I'm saying that someone else made decisions to alter the image aesthetically. They chose the way that worked best for what they were trying to do graphically AND from a marketing standpoint.

    How do you know that? Were you part of the final layout team and privy to the discussions of TIME editorial staff? It's no prize winner from a graphic standpoint; the text is illegible on the scarf.

    As we covered before it could easily have been differently with no change to the 99% on the scarf or another picture could have been used as a generic face in the crowd. That didn't happen; it was edited.

    You are simply offering your assumptions and opinion as fact to support your conclusion, not more.

    • 1 vote
    #4.15 - Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:05 AM EST
    douglasq

    How do you know that? Were you part of the final layout team and privy to the discussions of TIME editorial staff?

    No. But I've been in that situation and had to make similar decisions. It is part of my profession.

    • 1 vote
    #4.16 - Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:33 AM EST
    Reply
    Marshall James

    pamela drew.....I hope you like this video on the OWS and its founder.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHxJIlRJzuw&list=FLIZZqwWm6tVQBvZkYjSWrjg&index=7&feature=plpp_video

    • 3 votes
    Reply#5 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:04 PM EST
    Pamela Drew

    Marshall James...pamela drew.....I hope you like this video on the OWS and its founder.

    No I don't like it, I love, love, love it to pieces and since Newsvine navigates away from the page and leads me off my course I've had to favorite it on my youtube and link it on Twitter and send to friends before finding my way back to say thank you! Thank you very much for the fab surprise in my day! :~)

    Brilliantly and beautifully done with so much wonderful affirmation of fundamental rights and justice, freedoms and liberty, what it is that makes free people of the world rejoice and what interferes.

    Thank you for sharing this Marshall James, youtube OWS with Johnny Cash at his inspirational best

    • 2 votes
    #5.1 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:04 PM EST
    mountainfirefall

    it squelches the energy with satisfaction and we've won nothing.

    we are still dying.. I am still giving my last three dollars to the vet on the corner who wears an oxygen mask to breath as he panhandles for money to eat. Some are even building 'a resume' with this .. it makes me sick.

    no one wants to see us. They want to feel good, have a reason to stay involved, be validated.. many middlers are going back to what was thinking this thing will now right itself.

    please evolve to a place where you see the pain and fight harder.

    • 1 vote
    #5.2 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:14 PM EST
    Reply
    MinnieApolis

    I am a supporter of OWS and the efforts to de-fund and de-legitimize Big Banking and Corporate control of our lives. So take what I say with a grain of salt, Pamela.

    I think the altered picture better conveys the global impact of mass protests. The Arab Spring predated the OWS events by several months, after all. And protesters in Muslim countries have actually gotten some concrete results in the form of removal of despots -- altho they are having their own problems now with keeping the political reform movement on track. Even tho OWS went global in October, we still have not seen financial criminals brought to justice. Gotta keep the pressure on, everyone, and keep eyes on the prize.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#6 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:30 PM EST
    mountainfirefall

    that does nothing to press us forward as a movement... I'll say the hard @!$%#, let's stop with the 'emotional plees' and get busy acting in concert to undo what wealth has done, and the worse thing is to win the hearts of men who now believe they deserve the wealth at the expense of others.

    prove me wrong.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#7 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:30 PM EST
    sambonner

    This is the goofiest argument I have seen in the 9 months I have looked at Newsvine.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#8 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:36 PM EST
    mountainfirefall

    and just had to stop and say so huh... much like what time is doing.

    • 2 votes
    #8.1 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:38 PM EST
    sambonner

    Actually, I have a couple of comments farther up the page.

    Why are people arguing about something that is so obvious? The "Person Of The Year" is the global protester, not OWS. It would be far too distracting to name a world entity to the honor and then have as the cover someone with a big 99% across their face. This is not a complicated thing to understand- why are some of you having so much trouble?

    • 3 votes
    #8.2 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:43 PM EST
    Mike-1499840

    Sam,

    Voted up for conciseness and clarity.

    Regards,

    Mike

    • 3 votes
    #8.3 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:52 PM EST
    Pamela Drew

    sambonner...This is the goofiest argument I have seen in the 9 months I have looked at Newsvine.

    Well I've been here well over five years and think you've been sheltered if this ranks near goofiest. Apart from that I've never seen you before in any discussions or any thread of mine. I'm not sure why you feel the need to suddenly participate in a discussion that by your measure is pointless. Why say anything?

    • 1 vote
    #8.4 - Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:06 PM EST
    Reply
    sc1946

    Good grief, the whole OWS thing & capitalist bashing is just silly. Maybe every business & corporation should just shut down or become non-profit. Oh, wait, then all of us would be on the public dole but there would be no nasty profit makers to fund us.

    However, I can see how there would be some satisfaction if there was no capitalism or any profit making business because at last there would be true income equality, as in no income for anyone. What could be fairer than that?

    • 1 vote
    Reply#9 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:50 PM EST
    Pamela Drew

    What Wall Street has with Washington is not Capitalism but Corporate Welfare. In a capitalist system the market determines who thrives and who survives. It is based on free markets not free taxpayer dollars!

    Folks who bankrupt their companies do not get mega-million dollar bonuses in a capitalist system they get Chapter 11 restructuring. Let's use accurate terms and facts before lumping the good small business market in with the corporate fascist state supported insider crowd.

    • 3 votes
    #9.1 - Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:47 PM EST
    sc1946

    Oh, please, stop with the commie gulag talk.

    I have never heard of anyone starting a business & working 20 hours a day with the exhilirating high hopes & ambitions of keeping it a small & struggling business making zero to low profits.

    If hard work resulting in no profit is what you & your OWS friends think is business paradise then why don't you combine all your pennies & start some businesses that will never amount to anything yourselves instead of demanding handouts from everyone else?

    Back to the topic at hand, picture looks like a terrorist to me which is sort of appropos based on the intimidating & threatening actions of the OWS crowds with their "gimme all your money or we will make your lives a living hell" mindset.

    Btw, seems sort of self-destructive & idiotic for a nasty old business corporation like Time to honor as person of the year the very bums who want to bring down corporations like them. Maybe Time is just having a little tongue-in-cheek fun with us & hoping to make a little dare I say it profit for themselves at the same time.

      #9.2 - Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:51 AM EST
      Pamela Drew

      sc1946...Oh, please, stop with the commie gulag talk.

      Bailing out bankrupt Banksters for trillions of dollars is fact, not commie gulag talk. Giving money to those who do not work for it is a form of social welfare, when it is corporate beneficiaries it is Corporate Welfare. Words have meanings and you ought to choose ones that fit the facts.

      If hard work resulting in no profit is what you & your OWS friends think is business paradise then why don't you combine all your pennies & start some businesses that will never amount to anything yourselves instead of demanding handouts from everyone else?

      Those lame attacks may work on other folks but I come from Investment Banking world and have funded several hundred million dollars to small business through the years. I've secured funding for everything from startups to ongoing ventures and it is based on basic principles of banking that applied universally until deregulation turned Wall Street into a casino for the insiders.

      To invest in a viable entity is not the same as taking taxpayer funds to give an advantage to under-performers or losers to pay bonuses for the folks who tanked the business.

      As an aside, my views are my own, not part of a collective, no one speaks for me and I sure as heck don't purport to speak for anyone else so skip the collective smear BS.

      Back to the topic at hand, picture looks like a terrorist to me which is sort of appropos based on the intimidating & threatening actions of the OWS crowds with their "gimme all your money or we will make your lives a living hell" mindset.

      That the image suggests a terrorist to you is helpful to the point I was making about TIME editing the image to convey an editorial bias. Maybe douglasq will appreciate that feedback.

      As for your claim of OWS demanding something other than transparency and accountability I can only imagine you are a victim of FOX misinformation and I'd love to see any fact to back up the slur.

      Btw, seems sort of self-destructive & idiotic for a nasty old business corporation like Time to honor as person of the year the very bums who want to bring down corporations like them.

      Again vitriol added to your misinformed view leaves me wondering what the heck you are talking about.

      The Occupy movement is not about defining all business as evil, but differentiating between individual persons and corporate personhood, to defend from individual rights being subordinated by a small collective of corrupt and criminal Banksters as a move from Democracy to Fascism. Get some facts!

      • 2 votes
      #9.3 - Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:30 PM EST
      Reply
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